NYTimes/ Duranty Protest

November 13th, 2005 by Blackminorca

NY Times/Duranty Protest – Friday, November 18, 2005 –12:00 noon –opposite the NY Times building – 229 West 43rd Street between 7th and 8th in Manhattan. Organizer: United Ukrainian American Organizations of Greater New York. And don’t forget this smoking WMD Update: Feel the Love! The UACLA has joined the ranks.

UPDATE: Gareth Jones who snuck into Ukraine to refute Duranty will be represented at the rally by Nigel Colley, the great nephew. He and his mother Dr. Siriol Colley, the niece of Gareth Jones, have been petitioning the New York Times to surrender the Pulitzer Plaque and they hope this will be done on Friday.

UPDATE: Welcome to Samizdata and the otherwise Heavily Armed and Humourous

UPDATE: Welcome to Cornerites who stand athwart Duranty

UPDATE: InstaWelcomes to the Instafamily (Glad to see Instawife doing well!) T minus 3 minutes of fame and counting

24 Responses to “NYTimes/ Duranty Protest”

  1. Irena says:

    I support the need for Duranty to be expunged but the Ukrainians were not the only victims of Stalin.

  2. blackminorca says:

    You’re right – several hundred thousand Germans and Mennonites were targeted by Stalin. That did wonders for the fledgling Nazis.


    However, if you propose that Russians were affected, please see http://www.faminegenocide.com/resources/famine_map.html

  3. barnater girl says:

    Remember Stalin’s Famine-Genocide of 10 million Ukrainians happened a decade before the Holocaust.

  4. Bill Walsh says:

    Слава! Слава! Слава! Много успехов!

  5. Mike says:

    The world mustn’t forget. God bless Gareth Jones and may God have mercy on Duranty’s lying soul.

  6. One Eyed Cat says:

    Will be there in spirit on friday. Duranty was a despicable excuse of a human being. I do not believe he had a soul, may the NY Times finally find one.


  7. M.H. Wood says:

    If Duranty were alive today, he would be having tea with the Junior Senator from New York.

  8. Danny boy says:

    barnater girl – what is your source for the figure of 10 million dead in the famine of 1932-33?

    blackminorca – the map you linked, if we discount the obvious nonsense of knowing for sure the extent of population decline in the non-census year of 1933, proves with certainty that the famine affected not so much Ukraine as the steppe region of eastern Ukraine and southern Russia (Krasnodar krai in Russia is shown among the worst affected by the famine, and western Ukraine among the least).

    There are two problems with attempting to estimate, in good faith, the true number of the victims of the famine: the unreliability of the 1939 census data, of course, and the extreme politicization of the matter, which leads to the Stalinists’ claims of only several hundred thousand victims, mostly due to natural causes, and the Ukrainian nationalists’ claims of 10 million, all due to the brutality of the Stalinist regime. Both numbers are obviously worthless.

  9. Marko says:

    The Ukrainian American Civil Liberties Association is on board. See http://www.uacla.org/rally.htm for more info.

  10. barnatergirl says:

    Dannyboy – You are so right re: the reliability of soviet census data. That’s why its best to quote straight from the horse’s mouth – which Mr. Churchill has wisely afforded.

    C: “Tell me General Secretary, which was worse, the war with the fascists or the war with the kulaks”

    S: ” The war for collectivization was far worse”

    C: “How many did you lose?”

    Stalin held up all digits of both hands. I presume you can take it from there. For more, see Margolis:

    “The precise number of Ukrainians murdered by Stalin’s custom-made famine and Cheka firing squads remains unknown to this day. KGB’s archives, and recent work by Russian historians, shows at least 7 million Ukrainians died. Ukrainian historians put the figure at 9 million, or higher. Twenty-five percent of Ukraine’s population was exterminated.

    Six million other farmers across the USSR were starved or shot during collectivization. Stalin told Churchill he liquidated ten million peasants during the 1930′s. Add mass executions by the Cheka in Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania; the genocide of 3 million Muslims of the USSR; massacres of Cossacks and Volga Germans. In total, Soviet industrial genocide accounted for at least 40 million victims, not including 20 million war dead. ”
    Erin go Bragh!

  11. David M. McClory says:

    Ukranians had the greatest number killed, while the greatest percentage killed may belong to the Kazakhs.

    However, let us not stand as quibblers and accountants in front of History’s most muderous villains.

    Let us condemn evil whereever it is found.

  12. Dannyboy -

    My good man this is the second millenium – we no longer have to suffer this foolishness of Genocide denial. Where have you been?

    And besides, Mr McGlory is right – what is your point? To call us liars over 7 million vs 10 million? That would be a hollow victory.

    And what of the total lost to the Kremlin and its agents in the last century – do you also dispute the 100 million from South America to Viet Nam?

  13. Danny boy says:

    Barnatergirl –

    1. What is your source for the conversation that took place between Stalin and Churchill?

    2. Eric Margolis is a journalist, and, if you’ll excuse my irrational bias, is by default untrustworthy :) I would prefer a reference to actual scientific research. And the assurance that “KGB’s archives.. show[] at least 7 million Ukrainians died” is an outright lie.

    3. “Russian historians” and “Ukrainian historians”, like all unnamed “plurals”, are absolutely unacceptable in journalism. Herodotus was called the Father of Lies by his contemporaris for his penchant for phrases like “some Persians say”, among other things.. I’d think the standards of war journalism should have risen over the past 2500 years.

    4. Millions, millions, millions. What a barrage of numbers. But not a single nod to whence they came from.

    Thanks to the opening of KGB’s archives we now know that Stalin’s political purges claimed the lives of around 1.6 million people (800,000 executed, roughly the same number died in the GULAG). Given the vastly inflated estimates of these numbers made by Solzhenitsyn and others during the Cold War, it would be natural for me to be at least somewhat suspectful of the current estimates of the death toll of other crimes of the Communist regime in Russia.

    With the redrawing of Ukraine’s borders in the 30′s, a possible mass outmigration from the famine-affected regions, and the likelihood of many Ukrainians changing their ethnicity in the census of 1939 to avoid discrimination, the true number of famine victims will possibly never be known… and is likely to be far lower than most of today’s politicized guesses.

    Please, do not misconstrue my skepticism as an attempt to defend the crimes of Stalinism. I am, after all, a small l libertarian, and there’s little love lost between me and radical left wingers.

    What annoys me, however, is that the profound disrespect for simple, old-fashioned scholarship exhibited by many left-wingers in the 70′s is now embraced by even moderate right-wing pundits. Remember the oft-quoted, and wildly exaggerated numbers from those days: 10 million women burned at the stake for witchcraft in patriarchal Europe, tens of millions of Native Americans killed by liquor, bullets, and plague, tens of millions of African captives perished at sea on their way to American plantations? They’re writing the Black Book of Capitalism now, with the idea to portray capitalism, and the United States in particular, as far more murderous, genocidal, than all of the Communist countries put together. Don’t worry – they’ll come up with about ten million more victims of American capitalism than Soviet communism.

    What’s appalling is that instead of mourning the victims, regardless of their number, and letting scholars, through meticulous research, determine their numbers, ot at least our best estimate of them, we behave like fighting children: “you killed ten million!” – “and you a hundred million!” – “and you a gazillion million!”

    Very sad, really.

  14. Danny boy says:

    Blackminorca – I certainly dispute the number of 100 million victims of Communism – the number is idiotic.

    I also do not want to call the 1932-33 famine a “Ukrainian genocide”, as it’s clear that it affected not just Ukrainians, but Russians, Kazakhs, and many others.

    Russian Communism is certainly responsible for millions of peasant deaths: in the Volga region in the late teens-early twenties, in southern steppes (Ukraine, Russia, Kazakhstan) in the early thirties, in mass resettlements and executions of ‘kulaks’, both during the Red Terror and in the thirties..

    What I do NOT like is wild exaggeration for the sake of shock effect.

  15. Scythian Princess says:

    “What I do NOT like is wild exaggeration for the sake of shock effect. ”

    Then go blog somewhere else. Next you’ll be questioning whether Hitler murdered *exactly* 7 million Jews.

    You are missing the point, Danny boy, which is that a lot of people feel sufficient compassion for the victims of mass murderers like Stalin and Hitler that they don’t get hung up on precise head counts of corpses. What’s a million more or less? One is too many.

  16. Scythian Princess says:

    There you go. I meant 6 million Jews.

    What’s a million more or less?

    Either figure is obscene. Any figure is obscene. Killing is obscene. That should be the focus, not head counts.


  17. Danny boy says:

    Scythian Princess – “what’s a million more or less?”

    As I said – profound disrespect for scholarship. What numbers? The important thing is how we FEEL, right? We’ll make the numbers as we go.

    Well, at least as far as the Holocaust is concerned, any discussion of it usually brings up a wealth of research, conducted both in the immediate aftermath of the genocide (for the Nuremberg trials, among other things), and throughout the past 60 years. In this case, we indeed have the right to ask what’s a million more or less – the only significant fact is that a substantial share of Europe’s Jewry was wiped out in the first half of the 1940′s.

    I have seen some trustworthy research on Pol Pot’s genocide of his own people – the number is, apparently, around 1.5-2 million for a country with the population of 8 million (in 1975).

    But I’m yet to see any references to bona fide studies of the 1932-33 famine in here. Because what I have seen on the subject has led me to believe the actual death toll from the famine probably does not exceed 2 million.

    I want to be disproven. I want to see a thorough study that will come to a different conclusion.

  18. barnatergirl says:


    You ask for documentation and you discount it summarily.
    It is apparent that you are an answer looking for a question.
    But I’ll humor you one more time. For those that need the “scientific” proof, perhaps the Congressional Investigation of the Holodomor will suffice ( Headed by Dr James Mace – part native Indian from Oklahoma who died after a “misdiagnosis” – the same place where Yushchenko suffered his misdiagnosis of too much caviar and sushi.)

    Here is Dr Mace’s work as well as dozens of other reputable and “scientific” studies. Go Nuts!

    Click here.

  19. David M. McClory says:

    Numbers! Quibblers! Accountants!

    A Professor Marrus at the University of Toronto 20 years ago told me that we have the definate names of 4 million Jews dead, and the Nazis internally counted more than 8 million.

    As for Armenians, it used to be 500,000, became 1 million in the 1980s, and is now 2 million.

    One can quibble, but in the face of such enormity, maybe a moment of silence is called for.

  20. kingronjo says:

    Stalin said,

    “A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic.”

    Look at Natalee Holloway vis-a-vis Darfur, Tibet, etc today.

    I agree with the statement 10 million, 7 million, the theory is the same. To expose this 70 years later will hopefully open some eyes to the problems of today.

  21. Aussiegirl says:

    The same ones who quibble today about the exact numbers of millions as if it would make one whit of difference to the moral equation expose only the blackness and emptiness of a soul reduced to bean counting. Better to count the numbers of souls of real human beings, many of them my relatives and friends of my family. Don’t ANY bean-counting quibbler talk about the magnitude of human suffering, death and misery visited on those benighted lands. Shame on you. What my parents witnessed no human should have to witness and still go on living. Some day, if perhaps your soul arrives in heaven, you will feel the deep sin that you have committed in engaging in such talk and you will weep with remorse. I pray God to have mercy on your soul, because I certainly have none.

  22. Scythian Princess says:

    “As I said – profound disrespect for scholarship.”

    Ah yes, scholarship. So much more worthy of respect than human lives, eh?

    “… what I have seen on the subject has led me to believe the actual death toll from the famine probably does not exceed 2 million.”

    Oh is that all.

    “I want to be disproven.”

    If you say so.

    “I want to see a thorough study that will come to a different conclusion.”

    Then go do one yourself. Clever fellow like you should be able to either prove those of us who accept the 7-10 million number wrong, or yourself wrong. That should settle it.

    Take your time, though, out of respect for good scholarship. Because at this point, Dannyboy, your credentials are far below the calibre of, say, Dr. James Mace. However, if you work as diligently as he did, perhaps one day you will be as convincing.

  23. R. Ogmundson says:

    For scholarly estimates on genocides, see the work and website of R.J.Rummel.

    He tries to cover all sources, outlines all his data,methods and assumptions before making his own estimate (which usually splits the difference.)

    Without checking I would suspect that his estimate would be high.

  24. Как умело вы пишите, наверное давно свои навыки оттачивали? :)

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